Dual 1218 -does not spin

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Ayralin69
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Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Ayralin69 » 06 Nov 2014 22:02

Hello - on advice from member "musicmn" - I am posting here, after attempting to get my Dual 1218 functioning.

I followed his advice on setting up other components, with hand-me-down audio equipment. Things worked, until I hooked up the Dual 1218 turntable.

The platter does not spin. If I manually "kick start" it, it moves, slowly decreases speed.....but as it spins, the arm starts to work, however the slowing speed ends any functions.

If I gently touch the needle - I DO hear scratchy sound through the speakers.

I am not a turntable repair person - I am a nurse who works in a max security prison. I can respond to stabbings and staff assaults, bandage the wounded, calm the players - but I cannot make this turntable work! Even with a repair manual -it's just not my area of understanding :?

Can someone direct me to a business, hobbyist or someone who can give the turntable a once-over/ look-see/ or tune-up?

I am just east of St. Paul, Minnesota.

Thanks,
Linda

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by dualcan » 09 Nov 2014 19:31

Hi Linda,
Unfortunately I do not know of any service person in your area and I was hoping to see someone coming to your aid. Perhaps someone did?
If, as I fear you are still stuck, and are just a bit used to handling some very basic tools, (screwdriver for the most part) I will guarantee that the 1218, which is one of the real fine Duals, BTW, will give you not even a fraction of the trouble nursing it back to health as opposed to your daily chore..!
The problem that I see on your turntable is just old age which can, for these units be reversed...
If I can persuade you to give it a whirl, then I would ask that you take a picture of the unit (minus cover of course), and if by chance there is no bottom to the wooden base, take a shot of the "business end" as well. If you are not sure how to post the picture, we will help or you can send it via PM to me directly and I'll post it/them.
With a tiny bit of effort, and for testing purposes, using an elastic band we can assure that the unit will get some grip. Once that is established then a very rudimentary cleaning with Isoprophyl alcohol and a bit of work, the unit will respond. After that step is taken you will be a semi-pro and cleaning the motor will be a walk in the park... The folks here will guide you every step of the way.
As an aside, when I was swamped at the shop, my wife, a professional educator, could give me a run for my money in repairing just such a unit as yours with very little instructions.
There is no big secret to reviving this great unit and best of all, the few parts that you will need to replace, exist. It will take time, but the results will more than compensate!
The only thing that is worrisome, is once your first Dual has been successfully revived, there is danger in creating a habit of this and before you know it, well they are like rabbits....
Here's to your start!
Klaus

Ayralin69
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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Ayralin69 » 10 Nov 2014 06:09

Hello, Klaus!
Thank you for your kind reply, you are the only reply so far. I am the one nurse who can usually get "wound vacs" and IV pumps working when other nurses are scratching their heads. I have put together kids' toys & built doll houses - so maybe I can do this. :D

I worked the weekend, but tomorrow I am off and a BIG snowstorm is moving through Minnesota. I will take photos and attempt to post photos of the Dual.

I have records that have not spun for over 20 years - I guess they can patiently wait a wee bit longer. 8)

Thanks!
Linda

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Tinkaroo » 10 Nov 2014 11:18

Hi Linda:

As long as you are willing to give it a try and have a bit of patience, Klaus will be able to help you get your turntable going again.

Usually what is needed is some cleaning of old, hardened grease and then adding some fresh lubricant.

Good luck!

Ayralin69
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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Ayralin69 » 10 Nov 2014 15:39

Hello, my new Canadian fellow turntable aficionados - especially Klaus :D

I am attempting to post the Dual 1218 photos. My first attempt gets: "The file is too big, maximum allowed size is 1 MiB."

Looking forward to your expert advice. Thank you all!

Linda
Stillwater, Minnesota

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by dualcan » 10 Nov 2014 15:43

Hi Linda,
From what you write, it would seem that you are overqualified for this job!
For the eminent snow storm (which you can keep, please BTW..), I would suggest that you give a cursory look into the 1218 service manual and perhaps print it out, because I will refer to this, especially for parts identification.
The link is here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1218.shtml
Once on that page go down and click on the Service Manual.
It will be foreign at first for sure, but the pictures will give reference to what is under the hood, and we will meet them as the unit is being serviced.
Here is an outline of what needs to be done.
Since the main problem with your/all old turntable(s) is the idler wheel (Service Manual page 4, Figure 2,-look for item 139- over the motor) having dried out and no longer gripping effectively and is slipping between the motor pulley (same Fig 2, item 117) and the platter which it is supposed to drive, hence the slow down and stop. We will see how the idler (item 139) touches the platter later. Fig 6 page 5 shows the idler wheel contact to speed pulley clearer.
That is the first challenge, to get more umph out of this drive and we do that by resurfacing the idler wheel's contact rim with speed pulley. We can also get the idler resurfaced by a process in which the rubber component is replaced and reshaped; think of vulcanizing/resurfacing a tire. The latter is the better option but the inspection will tell.
Next on the agenda is to clean and oil the motor. A piece of cake using the motor guide...
Next we will look at the tonearm and replace one part, the drive pimple ( page 18 item 189 . One of the members Don (alias mrow2) here makes a fine replacement { NOTE TO DON: now called >PIN< :mrgreen: !}. At this time we will look at the cue lever lift (page 8, Fig 11, item 193) and replenish this, in order for the lift to lower the stylus gently onto the record.
and for (pretty well) a finale, we will clean all the sound cable contacts to ensure good electrical/sound connection.

Now that you have an overview of the work, first on the agenda is getting the service manual, then get the "Servicing Dual Motors and drives" form:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 37&t=65030
In that guide is a list of tools and stuff you already have: Isoprophyl 99% preferable, alcohol Latex gloves, Qtips,. For the tools, many dollar stores have stuff which is usable, especially the small screwdrivers.
We will get into more details along the way.
The next item that you can already do, is to extricate the turntable (chassis) from the wooden base (plinth). This is as easy as apple pie if you look at the instructions here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 37&t=26556
And that would do it for now. Anytime you hit a snag, just post before getting frustrated or doing the wrong thing. We all started the same way---except us macho men who never need to read instructions-right? Right!
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by mrow2 » 10 Nov 2014 16:39

Yes in studying the 1218 manual I learned that a Stuerpimpel is translated in various ways, "PIN" being one of them. The part number was listed however, but one would never find it otherwise. And it appears as if they had designated one of the identifications by pointing to a spring. The explosion view is so lacking that I actually had to refer to one of my own archive photos to verify this machine was not one of the hybrids. One of the views for 1218 (p.18) implies that the mushroom pimpel is still employed. Is it possible 1218 is the first Dual with the full design revision? This is such a pleasant machine to work on, with some TLC Linda's 1218 will be like new.
Dual 1218 Pimpel_filt aa.jpg
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Did anyone address uploading photos for Linda? The pics from the phone or camera must be downsized in a simple photo editor, name-modified and then uploaded. PSE is the most popular but it costs some money. Many PCs come with a rudimentary photo editor in the bundle. If you can find a way to reduce your images to approx 1200 pixels in width they will still be plenty clear for all to see, and the filesize will fall in line for this site. There is probably a free photo editor -- I searched for 60 seconds and found GIMP Photoshop, also Zoner -- Disclaimer, I have no experience with either, but I've had good experiences at CNet for occasional free downloads. I believe I have been aware of GIMP from the past, so it has been around for a while. The image above has been extensively edited, is 237 kb in size, considerably less than 1MB.

Ayralin69
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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Ayralin69 » 10 Nov 2014 17:30

Hi, I sent on my photos to Klaus. Hopefully he will post them for me. Thanks! The snowstorm is now an ice storm, soon to return to snow. Welcome, Winter :?

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by dualcan » 10 Nov 2014 18:10

Hi Don,
That first space belong to the 1209 or the 1214 (probably the 09). The 1218 is really a very much improved 1209 with the new arm and all the new lift stuff such as the acclaimed (upliftingsetscrewpimpelpinspringdoodadcontrolnipplestud-widget).
The first unit with that (upliftingsetscrewpimpelpinspringdoodadcontrolnipplestud-widget) was the 1219 I believe, could be wrong though!
As far as photo editor, when I was hooked to all things Microsoft, I used adobe photoshop and it worked to reduce the size amongst other tricks. Now that I am free from (Not so)-Microhassles and use Linux, I use Gimp and am very happy with it. besides the price being right for a change, the editor for photo shrinkage actually gives you the data size while you decide how low to go. Put another way just watch the numbers of KB and once you fall just below 500K, let her rip!
One note of caution I had to overcome in Gimp is the default setting of "Save" or "Save as" is not in jpeg but some other form. To overcome this you need to "export" and demand jpg. Once this is understood the rest is very nice.
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by dualcan » 10 Nov 2014 22:15

Having received and seen the pictures of the 1218, it is in fabulous condition!:
L 1218 1.JPG
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L 1218 2.JPG
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L 1218 4.JPG
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L 1218 4.JPG
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L 1218 5.JPG
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This will be a relatively short and easy overhaul, and to that end let's get busy!
After the auto spindle AW3 is removed from the platter with a counter-(anti)-clock twist, the chassis can be removed from the base.
As can be seen, the chassis is almost ready to fall out of the base, and that will be the next task. Look at the pictures under the thread, How to open Dual turntables for servicing:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... m.php?f=37
It shows how to release the two transit screws to enable lifting the chassis free.
All the items referred to below, are on page 17 or 18 in the 1218 Service Manual (available in the library above under Dual) from here on, unless otherwise specified.
Keep the tone-arm lock (item 23) closed/locked.
Next, remove the cartridge with the head-shell (item 22) by pushing finger lever (item 18) towards the back, but keep a grasp of the head-shell (22) so that it does not plop down an damage the stylus. Carefully put it away and take extra care for the stylus. It won't be needed for a while.
Next, remove the counterweight (item 50 with 51), on the back of the tone-arm by loosening the bolt, item 52 a bit. Now the counterweight can slide out toward the back.
Next item is platter removal. This is accomplished by removing the C-ring (item 4) and the manner of its removal is shown in the Dual Motor Service guide, page 5, Fig 3 (available under Servicing Dual Turntables in the sticky above). Often the open end of the c ring is also on the open end of the platter support stem, leaving nothing to grab (where the screwdriver touches in fig 3). If this is the case, nudge the ring around a bit to expose it to the open slot, enabling the screwdriver to fish it out.
Please heed the warning about touching drive parts in the Motor guide page 4
The platter can now be lifted off the chassis and put away (rubber matt down).
At this point it is advisable to make the cardboard support ring as seen in the Motor guide fig 2, page 5, (or perhaps making the DIY repair stand if more than one turntable is envisaged), this to avoid damage to the tonearm support, when the unit is put up side down.
This platter is our first object of attention.
To be continued....
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by dualcan » 12 Nov 2014 01:12

Hi,
Please remember to interject anytime if something is not clear with these instructions.
Part two:
Keep in mind that whenever any drive surface (platter drive rim, idler rim, speed pulley) needs to be touched, it is preferable to wear latex gloves to avoid body acid contamination of these parts.
With the platter removed, the unit is now ready for work and the platter drive surface will need to be cleaned with alcohol (pencil is pointing onto drive (rim) surface):
1218 less platter 1.JPG
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Please remember to place the platter onto its rubber mat surface to avoid damage to the brass sleeve bushing which extents out of the central platter barrel. Any burr on this sleeve will be picked up by the cartridge and might interfere with the proper seating of the central bearing (item 167).

Next the idler gets removed from the idler shaft as seen in fig 2 page 4 and here:
1218 idler.JPG
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To remove the idler see the Servicing Dual Motors guide:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=65030
Page 6 Fig 4.

Once the idler is removed the drive surface should be cleaned with alcohol.
If the idler no longer gives traction, then the surface should be sanded with 220 ish grit paper. This is best accomplished by having the idler chucked into a drill and spun fast onto the paper:
idler dressing.JPG
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Doing it this way will avoid (as much as possible) distorting the concentric value of the idler. There must be no bumps or dips in this surface. If available, a drill press is preferable. Clean the idler again with alcohol (99%) after this shaping and set aside.

If the idler is too brittle (the brown coloured idlers in particular) then a re-manufacture of the idler is needed.
At this juncture, a verification of the idler transport system and its linkages is suggested.


Next item will be cleaning and re-lubing the motor. Start by removing the speed pulley:
1218 speed pulley.JPG
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Check the Motor Service guide again on page 7 Figure 5 for further details of its removal.

Next we will open, clean and lubricate the motor,
For this operation besides the alcohol and Q tips, we will need light machine oil. The simplest is to go to a Singer centre and get some fresh sewing machine oil.
A small amount 10W30 or 40 motor oil will be required for other parts and might be purchased at the same time...

To Be Continued,
Regards,
k

Ayralin69
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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Ayralin69 » 12 Nov 2014 02:14

Hi, Klaus - I am printing out your directions, but have not started due to work/family obligations. I hope to sit down Thursday afternoon and begin. I will post questions as they arise. Thanks for the step-by-step guidelines.
Linda

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by vinyl master » 12 Nov 2014 04:02

You can do this, Linda...Klaus has some good advice...Don (mrow2) also has a very informative PDF file that I purchased from him very reasonably, along with a steuerpimpel and some Alvania grease...This grease works very well in these turntables...You might consider purchasing his all-in-one package, as the PDF file is very detailed, but well-written...If you can't get the Alvania, you can also use lithium grease (Your local hardware should carry it). Some Singer sewing machine oil can also come in handy, and can be found very cheaply at Wal-Mart. In time, you can get this TT up and running again...She looks in decent shape, too...Don and Klaus are the resident Dual experts here, but there are many more of us who love and cherish their Duals, so if you have any questions, ask away...There are plenty of Engineers here who would love to help...I own a 1226 and a "new" 1009SK, and am just loving them!

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by Ayralin69 » 12 Nov 2014 14:26

Klaus? Should I get the "Alvania grease" and the "steurpimpel"? :D My, my - there is an entire new jargon I will have to be learning here - - alost as amusing as medical terminology :D
Thanks, everyone!
Linda

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Re: Dual 1218 -does not spin

Post by DSJR » 12 Nov 2014 18:03

What a WONDERFUL thread :D I know 'we' are supposed to know all this, but you can't beat pictures.

P.S. To show what a narrow thinking numpty I still am, I've learned that I don't need a small lathe to buff an idler and don't need to try to buff the thing in situ. I just need to gently fit the idler to a drill chuck and spin it... Common sense to you lot, but my Aspergic tendencies don't go that far :lol: :oops: :roll:

LOVELY looking 'original' deck this one, with a clean un-corroded motor. Hope it's got going very soon.

YES! DO get a replacement steurerpimpel and pot of grease!

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